Hi folks, it's been a while.  I need to make something right here.  Back in March I did a very stupid and arrogant thing on the TRAC Forum in this thread:

http://www.traccentral.org/Forum/tabid/53/ptid/427/threadid/3553/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

I offered to get people bluebreast darters from Kentucky and went on an egotistical rant about gilt darters.  This was wrong of me in any context; protection of our threatened and endangered species should be our foremost concern in appreciating North American fishes.  You all responded to this offer flawlessly and honored the wishes of those who are in charge of protecting them.  I particularly liked Susan's response the best:

" there are enough other cool fish without getting into any legal issues."

...with the caveat that we might even improve that statement by substituting in "getting any species that are of any sort of concern."  It shouldn't be a choice of law, but of ethics.

I want to apologize for having said any of this, regardless of why I said it. 

The second thing I'd like to apologize for why I said it.  It was my intention to see how folks would answer in a situational ethics kind of deal, which was a dirty thing to do.  I was pretty sure about how you all felt about this... I didn't need to do that, and I am really sorry that I did. 

So, thanks for your interest in this group of fishes.  I hope I haven't diminished your enthusiasm and appreciation for these great species, and helping to increase their abundance as we learn more about how to mitigate our human activities with the natural resources that support us. 

Todd

Apology accepted, though I had no idea what you were talking about until you brought up my name.  I should have said, ". . . any legal or ethical issues."  I realize that for many people, the two don't match up very well.  People sometimes seem to worry more about the law than ethics.  Those who have ethics don't always make a big deal about it, I guess. 

OMG, I haven't been able to sleep for weeks.  NOW I KNOW WHY

farmertodd said :

 It was my intention to see how folks would answer in a situational ethics kind of deal, which was a dirty thing to do....

Todd

Shame, shame, shame on you.

winland

Thanks for understanding Susan.  It was good to run into you on Saturday.  It'll be nice to be in one place again for awhile!

Todd

schambers said :

Apology accepted, though I had no idea what you were talking about until you brought up my name.  I should have said, ". . . any legal or ethical issues."  I realize that for many people, the two don't match up very well.  People sometimes seem to worry more about the law than ethics.  Those who have ethics don't always make a big deal about it, I guess. 

I vaguely remember the thread, and remember asking if it was illegal to have fish that were restricted in your own area, if they had been caught in an area in which they were not restricted.  But that's about all I recall of the convo.

I have a question.  If I buy an endangered fish from a dealer from another state where the fish is not endangered, is it legal?  I'm asking because I wonder if I need to check the status of fish before I order them.  I would think that if I kept the receipt, I'd be okay, but I don't want to assume anything.  I'm talking about licensed dealers, not Joe Hobbyist.  I've mail ordered some fish this summer, and it's a great way to get fish I don't have access to otherwise.

Nope.  I wouldn't even do it if it's been a taxonomic split... For example tippecanoe (E. tippecanoe) and gold darters (E. denoncourti) which were split 10 years ago, where currently you can collect gold darters in TN legally as "bait". 

They don't come with a tag stating who they "are" (well, that are easily read anyway ;), there's no way to tell if it was part of Ohio's wildlife or not.  The Ohio Wildlife Code doesn't make a provision for reciepts.  It just says "No".  So yeah, I wouldn't do it. 

I hope to have a conversation with ODNR this winter about what their wishes are concerning our minority (I'm out of natives right now because I'm a permit holder, and it explicitly says I cannot have wildlife at my residence on the permit).  I'm very interested to hear what the barometer is on our kind, if we're even on the radar. 

I had a good talk with the Permit guy from Tennessee while at the American Fisheries Society meeting.  Due to VHS, they are going to ban live carry for any species of fish (like Wisconsin).  I'm going to bet that this is going to be a trend in most states.  However, if he had his way, there would be a provision like VA and AR where you are permitted to keep 6 of any non T&E species for home aquaria or education without a special permit.  I'd like to see that happen in Ohio, and these things will not happen until someone brings it up, which is what my friend in TN has said is the underlying cause for them continuing to leave the TN Wildlife Code as is. 

Todd

Thanks!  I'll check the list before ordering.

That stinks that you can't keep native fish.  I'd have to take down half my aquariums! 

Yeah, it ended up being all my aquariums, but I was out of time to deal with them right then anyway. 

I really like just throwing in some flake or pellet food when I'm busy now  :)

Todd