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Briney Dave
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Hey Brad,
does the zoo culture mysis shrimp at all?? I have read some about it but would like to see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one.
I have a pretty good number of sps and a clam to feed plus I have a couple students interested in breeding cardinals and similars for next year. I would like to get a shrimp factory running now to be able to supply all these odds and ends needs for a good food source.
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KingDiamond
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Briney Dave said :
Hey Brad, does the zoo culture mysis shrimp at all?? I have read some about it but would like to see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one. I have a pretty good number of sps and a clam to feed plus I have a couple students interested in breeding cardinals and similars for next year. I would like to get a shrimp factory running now to be able to supply all these odds and ends needs for a good food source.
We still have a mysid culture going, although it is not as big as it was when we had seadragons. Quite honestly I don't know if a mysid culture would benefit your clams or sps. It's kind of tough for sessile inverts to catch motile ones! (ha ha). They are the cats meow for any kind of marine fish breeding. After we started using "baby" mysids for any baby seahorses our mortality rate per batch of babies went way down. I am not sure Jay would set you up with a starter culture or not but years of fighting have paied off and we have gotten some of the "rules" loosened when it comes to invertebrates. Rules for elephants being applied to invertebrates is quite annoying.
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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin
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hillbillyracin
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KingDiamond said :
Briney Dave said :
Hey Brad,
does the zoo culture mysis shrimp at all?? I have read some about it but would like to see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one.
I have a pretty good number of sps and a clam to feed plus I have a couple students interested in breeding cardinals and similars for next year. I would like to get a shrimp factory running now to be able to supply all these odds and ends needs for a good food source.
We still have a mysid culture going, although it is not as big as it was when we had seadragons. Quite honestly I don't know if a mysid culture would benefit your clams or sps. It's kind of tough for sessile inverts to catch motile ones! (ha ha). They are the cats meow for any kind of marine fish breeding. After we started using "baby" mysids for any baby seahorses our mortality rate per batch of babies went way down. I am not sure Jay would set you up with a starter culture or not but years of fighting have paied off and we have gotten some of the "rules" loosened when it comes to invertebrates. Rules for elephants being applied to invertebrates is quite annoying.
I think "free" (set me up, hook me up, what can ya do me etc) can dimish the value of excellent information and effective advice, and VALUABLE research time. No matter how trivial the request may seem at face value. I could understand Jay's assumed stance, if thats what he may choose to (and can) take. Think about it for a second.
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zoakeeper
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Have him fill out a biomaterials request form and let him see that it isnt even worth the trouble for some little shrimp. Like brad said, such large inverts will not do a lick of good for clam. Try culturing phytoplankton or something similar in a bottle, DTs.
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Briney Dave
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I am not looking for freebie stuff, I just wanted to see the set up and talk with someone in the know. I guess that is sort of free stuff because I am learning for free. I have seen several companies selling live cultures and will buy my starters and other equipment needed.
You are right about those guys being fast and not great sessile food; Not sure what I was thinking there.
I do have kids wanting to try a number of different fish breeding programs. Plus the fish we have will always do better with good and different food sources.
Ultimately, I would like to have a very good student who has earned their way up to try mandarins.
I fully understand rules being applied to you that were really ment for other things. The Jason laws come to my mind. Just imagine if I were to keep a couple sodas in my frig in my class/lab. Then, even though I never do, I were to bring in dangerous chemicals and start doing chem labs and then if it were to spill so bad as to get into a cupboard, into my frig and onto my soda. Then (assuming I lived through the spill) I were to open that can and drink that toxic soup.
A very good rule for chem lab, a fine rule for a micro bio lab where they are culturing bacteria
but all I have in my class are the same tanks everyone else has in their house,
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Aquatic Aquaman
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Briney Dave said :
Ultimately, I would like to have a very good student who has earned their way up to try mandarins.
My next breeding project I'm going to try is the Mandarins. I've been doing a lot of research on it over at MOFIB. Of course I'd like to get the Bengaii's going as well again. My new tank is getting some new tank syndrom even though there's nothing in it.
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Toledo Reef Aquarium Club Web Administrator
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KingDiamond
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hillbillyracin said :
KingDiamond said :
Briney Dave said :
Hey Brad, does the zoo culture mysis shrimp at all?? I have read some about it but would like to see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one. I have a pretty good number of sps and a clam to feed plus I have a couple students interested in breeding cardinals and similars for next year. I would like to get a shrimp factory running now to be able to supply all these odds and ends needs for a good food source.
We still have a mysid culture going, although it is not as big as it was when we had seadragons. Quite honestly I don't know if a mysid culture would benefit your clams or sps. It's kind of tough for sessile inverts to catch motile ones! (ha ha). They are the cats meow for any kind of marine fish breeding. After we started using "baby" mysids for any baby seahorses our mortality rate per batch of babies went way down. I am not sure Jay would set you up with a starter culture or not but years of fighting have paied off and we have gotten some of the "rules" loosened when it comes to invertebrates. Rules for elephants being applied to invertebrates is quite annoying.
I think "free" (set me up, hook me up, what can ya do me etc) can dimish the value of excellent information and effective advice, and VALUABLE research time. No matter how trivial the request may seem at face value. I could understand Jay's assumed stance, if thats what he may choose to (and can) take. Think about it for a second.
I don't think I would just give someone some animals and say "O.K. go kill'em". I would try to set up a time for Dave to stop in a talk to him. It is always best learn on your own, it establishes it in your long term memory. Why reinvent the wheel every time you try something new. That kind of why web sites like this exist.
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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin
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Aquatic Aquaman
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Exactly! 
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Toledo Reef Aquarium Club Web Administrator
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pundam
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hillbillyracin said :
KingDiamond said :
Briney Dave said :
Hey Brad,
does the zoo culture mysis shrimp at all?? I have read some about it but would like to see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one.
I have a pretty good number of sps and a clam to feed plus I have a couple students interested in breeding cardinals and similars for next year. I would like to get a shrimp factory running now to be able to supply all these odds and ends needs for a good food source.
...
I think "free" (set me up, hook me up, what can ya do me etc) can dimish the value of excellent information and effective advice, and VALUABLE research time. No matter how trivial the request may seem at face value. I could understand Jay's assumed stance, if thats what he may choose to (and can) take. Think about it for a second.
Actually, what Briney had asked was if he could >> see a set up in action or hear from someone who has at least run one. >>. He wasn't asking for anything to be given to him other than time in which to talk to someone who has been there/done that. My guess is he would also be happy to be pointed in the direction of useful info either online or in print form. If you think about it, that type of thing is why this club exists- so hobbyists can share info with one another.
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Mary
I've got a mind like a steel....Ohh! Shiny! ::::wanders off::::
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Spuds725
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pundam said :
If you think about it, that type of thing is why this club exists- so hobbyists can share info with one another.
Mis-info too 
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Real Name: Bill --Currently running a 125g w/135g sump.
Fish: Hippo Tang,Bi-color angel, Orchid Dottyback
Coral: Kenya tree coral, shrooms, greenstar polyps, leather, some button polyps
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Briney Dave
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Without doubt I have inadvertantly been flat wrong about something I have said; many other times I have not done a good enough job explaining what I mean. Case in point: this post.
My request with Brad is to learn the hows and whys then think through if I have the ability to raise these shrimp. From everything I have read; enriched live mysis shrimp are great for developing as well as adult fish and others in the tank. Thus it would be worth my students time for me to learn more about the shrimp and if possible add them to our lab.
Regarding earily posts about my request, I have no plans to stand willy nilly on the shoulders of others without respect and regard to their hard earned knowledge.
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pundam
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Spuds725 said :
pundam said :
If you think about it, that type of thing is why this club exists- so hobbyists can share info with one another.
Mis-info too
Oh you hush!
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Mary
I've got a mind like a steel....Ohh! Shiny! ::::wanders off::::
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hillbillyracin
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Briney Dave said :
Without doubt I have inadvertantly been flat wrong about something I have said; many other times I have not done a good enough job explaining what I mean. Case in point: this post.
My request with Brad is to learn the hows and whys then think through if I have the ability to raise these shrimp. From everything I have read; enriched live mysis shrimp are great for developing as well as adult fish and others in the tank. Thus it would be worth my students time for me to learn more about the shrimp and if possible add them to our lab.
Regarding earily posts about my request, I have no plans to stand willy nilly on the shoulders of others without respect and regard to their hard earned knowledge.
my responce was more directed at the responce you received from Brad .Very simply stated; (yes I boiled it down to simple terms, as I am too lazy to quote exact words!) I (Brad) would help you out, but my Evil, Evil boss acts like I am giving you an elephant, not a "cup of critters".
I was attempting in my own special way, to explain that there is possibly a reason, for the Evil Evil boss's position on things like this. My responce had nothing to do with your request, just the answer you received. Being a man of science such as yourself, I know that you value all time and research that goes into such experiments.
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vance71975
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The shrimp that Briney was talking about are Mysid not Mysis. These are two very different shrimp. The Mysid is a small saltwater shrimp Mysis are I believe freshwater/brackish but i could be wrong. The sites below are about them and breeding them hope it helps Briney!
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/breeder.htm
http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/mat/ekolo/vk/viherluoto/foodsele.pdf
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/mysisCulturing.shtml
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Mysids1.htm
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Check out this site, these are some really good people!
http://www.wilmasthecause.org/
They helped me out,i feel adding the site to my Sig is the least i can do.
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KingDiamond
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hillbillyracin said :
Briney Dave said :
Without doubt I have inadvertantly been flat wrong about something I have said; many other times I have not done a good enough job explaining what I mean. Case in point: this post. My request with Brad is to learn the hows and whys then think through if I have the ability to raise these shrimp. From everything I have read; enriched live mysis shrimp are great for developing as well as adult fish and others in the tank. Thus it would be worth my students time for me to learn more about the shrimp and if possible add them to our lab. Regarding earily posts about my request, I have no plans to stand willy nilly on the shoulders of others without respect and regard to their hard earned knowledge. my responce was more directed at the responce you received from Brad .Very simply stated; (yes I boiled it down to simple terms, as I am too lazy to quote exact words!) I (Brad) would help you out, but my Evil, Evil boss acts like I am giving you an elephant, not a "cup of critters". I was attempting in my own special way, to explain that there is possibly a reason, for the Evil Evil boss's position on things like this. My responce had nothing to do with your request, just the answer you received. Being a man of science such as yourself, I know that you value all time and research that goes into such experiments.
First off I don't think Jay is evil but what I do know is he knows and has access to all the rules and the bylaws of the AZA (what I know I get through him). Well guess what, the rules that apply to an elephant DO apply to a "cup of critters" and quit frankly he (you know the evil guy) is trying to get some of those rules "relaxed". The zoos mission statement (Inspiring others to join us in caring for animals and conserving the natural world). I think helping out Dave teach kids in his classroom falls under that statement. Dave knows that I will talk to him and show him what ever he needs (just getting together is the hard part). The mysids are not "mine", they are the zoos. "If" we were to work something out with Dave for a starter culture, the final word would come from Jay. The animals in our department are ultimately his responsibility, I am not painting him as the big bad boss. I am stating facts. If you have a problem with me wanting to help someone then I think you need to reevaluate"who" is evil!
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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin
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vance71975
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Now i know i have no authority to be saying anything, but i have never been one to keep quiet so here goes. Children cant you play nice with each other? The whole point of the thread was quite obliviously looking to SEE a breeding set up and to LEARN from it in the hopes of setting one up. So Since no mod has jumped in to say this i will say it even though it doesn't mean anything coming from me.If you are not sharing information about breeding these shrimp as a food source,about where to get a starter culture or where to see a breeding set up and ask questions you really shouldn't be posting in the first place. I am NOT targeting one person i think the guilty parties will know WHO they are, so i am not naming names. Remember we are here to share info,help each other with a hobby we all enjoy and to HAVE FUN! We are not here to flame or troll.
*steps down off soap box*
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Check out this site, these are some really good people!
http://www.wilmasthecause.org/
They helped me out,i feel adding the site to my Sig is the least i can do.
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pundam
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vance71975 said :
Since no mod has jumped in to say this i will say it
*steps down off soap box* I did not step in or pull any posts as a moderator because I prefer to allow adults the opportunity to work things out amongst themselves, which it appears has already been done here.
I absolutely agree with you that >>we are here to share info,help each other with a hobby we all enjoy and to HAVE FUN! We are not here to flame or troll >> but it would seem that my definitions of flamers and trolls are a bit looser than yours.
I freely admit to a tendency to be rather lenient about threads going off-tangent. That happens in verbal conversations, and I kind of like the conversational tone we have in most of our threads. In addition, I have found in my years of message boarding that trying to strictly police threads staying on-topic is not only a lot like herding cats, it often imparts formality to the boards that can create a restrictive atmosphere.
You certainly have the right to step on a soapbox when you feel strongly! Goodness knows I've gotten up on more than my own share of soapboxes in various forums! 
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Mary
I've got a mind like a steel....Ohh! Shiny! ::::wanders off::::
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KingDiamond
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Sorry but there comes a point when I feel I need to defend myself.... and others for that matter.
Dave, get yourself some ten gallon tanks and one larger tank like a 29 gallon or even bigger. You will need heaters for each tank and a sponge filter for each tank. Mysid shrimp do best when kept at an specific gravity of 1.016 to 1.018 but you can keep them at a higher specific gravity. I will have to double check the temp but I think 78 degree is good. I will give you my speel but Jay told me to tell you guys to just buy his book. Basically, the bigger tank will be your "brood" tank. All your starter adults will go into this tank. The big thing is feeding them. To culture mysids you have to culture brine shrimp. Newly hatched brine shrimp are what they eat. We have fed them other things (flake, cyclops..)but brine works the best. Mainly because it stays alive until they eat it all. Two "problem" organisms you can encounter while cultureing mysids are Uranema (sp?) and Hydra. Uranema are small unicellular cilliates that can become a problem if your mysid culture tanks become to "dirty". Weekly water changes are necessary. Uranema in large numbers can cause problems with your fishes health (hence the need to worry about them). Hydra are a problem because they will eat your mysids. Scrubbing the walls of the aquarium and squeeing out the spong filters before every water change is madatory. Everyday you will need to collect the "baby" mysids form the brood tank. We found that doing this shortly after the lights turn on in the morning is best, if you wait to long the adult will eat the "babies". Everyone has different methods of collecting the "baby" mysids but just using to different size mesh nets works the best. Get a "standard" green mesh fish net and a much smaller (brine mesh) type net. Make sure the net is not to large to maneuver around the brood tank as the babies will be collected by sweeping the net along the inside surfaces of the tank. Before you collect get some water from one of the "culture" tanks and put it in a container that has a top opening about the size (slightly smaller) of the standard green mesh net. Collect the baby mysids from the brood tank using the "brine mesh" net. You will have collected both adult and baby mysid shrimp in the fine mesh net. Put the green standard mesh net over the opening of the container with water in it. Empty the mysids from the fine mesh net into the green mesh net (now dangling in the container of culture water). The baby mysids are small enough to get through the green mesh but the adults are to big. It is best to "dunk" the green net up and down in the container a few time to make sure that most of the baby mysids have made it through. Put the remaining adults back into the brood tank and add the newly collected babies into your first starter culture tank. Dating the tanks is helpful. You can keep an awlful lot of mysids per tank but you must make sure they are well fed. Through experimentation you will find a arthropod density that works best for you for both your brood and culture tanks. You will eventually have to add some of the older culture mysids back into your brood tank because of attrition. I realize that sometimes it is easier to see than to have it explained but....fire away with any questions you may have.
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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin
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hc8719
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vance71975 said :
Now i know i have no authority to be saying anything, but i have never been one to keep quiet so here goes. Children cant you play nice with each other? The whole point of the thread was quite obliviously looking to SEE a breeding set up and to LEARN from it in the hopes of setting one up. So Since no mod has jumped in to say this i will say it even though it doesn't mean anything coming from me.If you are not sharing information about breeding these shrimp as a food source,about where to get a starter culture or where to see a breeding set up and ask questions you really shouldn't be posting in the first place. I am NOT targeting one person i think the guilty parties will know WHO they are, so i am not naming names. Remember we are here to share info,help each other with a hobby we all enjoy and to HAVE FUN! We are not here to flame or troll.
*steps down off soap box*
I don't think the thread became a brawl, Vance
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Matt
75 Gallon Freshwater
29 Gallon FOWLR
10 Cherry Red Shrimp tank
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vance71975
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hc8719 said :
vance71975 said :
Now i know i have no authority to be saying anything, but i have never been one to keep quiet so here goes. Children cant you play nice with each other? The whole point of the thread was quite obliviously looking to SEE a breeding set up and to LEARN from it in the hopes of setting one up. So Since no mod has jumped in to say this i will say it even though it doesn't mean anything coming from me.If you are not sharing information about breeding these shrimp as a food source,about where to get a starter culture or where to see a breeding set up and ask questions you really shouldn't be posting in the first place. I am NOT targeting one person i think the guilty parties will know WHO they are, so i am not naming names. Remember we are here to share info,help each other with a hobby we all enjoy and to HAVE FUN! We are not here to flame or troll.
*steps down off soap box* I don't think the thread became a brawl, Vance
nope it didn't but it did appear to be headed that way. It always seems to happen when someone decides to troll and someone giving valid info has to defend themselves. we all know who the troll is and who needed to defend his position. i just hate seeing trolls even ones that are mild.
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Check out this site, these are some really good people!
http://www.wilmasthecause.org/
They helped me out,i feel adding the site to my Sig is the least i can do.
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