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Toledo Reef Aquarium Club Forum
 
:: Home » Aquatic Plants » hey freshwater keepers
Author Messages
Briney Dave

Moderator
Posts : 981
Location : N/A
Posted : 5/16/2008 9:45:18 AM  

Greetings my sweet water pals

did you see a freshwater tank make "tank of the month" in reef keeper on-line magazine. 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/5/aquarium

its a 15 gal planted tank.  Neat set up although he is more than a bit uppity about how freshwater keeping is moral but reef guys are the devil

Anyway does this signal a significant change in keeping or just the a blip on the radar screen. 

tames


Posts : 76
Location : Maumee
Posted : 5/16/2008 11:38:01 AM  

"Anyway does this signal a significant change in keeping or just the a blip on the radar screen."

Seems to me your question is directed at the wrong group of people   It is not a "change" for us at all.  The only thing about this tank that makes it advanced is all the equipment -CO2 injection, cannister filters, specialized substrates,  very high light levels, etc.

I have and have seen very beautiful low-tech tanks using only top soil, sand, plants, heater and light (no CO2, filters or pumps).  You don't get the very quick growth that you see in the high-tech, but they are much less work.

This is one of my 29 gals. Top soil, sand, heater, 65 watt power compact. Maybe not quite as "artsy", but I think it is quite nice. (I have a very old digital camera)

 

 

"The demand for clarity is responsible for the confusion." -- U.G. Krishnamurti

Maumee Valley Living Reality Meetup Group
Briney Dave

Moderator
Posts : 981
Location : N/A
Posted : 5/16/2008 1:00:00 PM  

that seems to be a very nice set-up.  and you sell yourself short in terms of the look.  I think it looks very nice. 

The question is for everyone regarding the future of the hobby. 

There very well may come a day in the near future where we can only get aqua-cultured live rock and a smaller number of fishes from the wild but that does not spell the end of reef keeping nor should it. 

I was not fond of his comments about reef tanks as I would not be fond of anyone cutting on a well thought out and responsibly kept freshwater tank such as yours. 

Burks

Moderator

Posts : 1895
Location : Toledo, OH
Posted : 5/16/2008 1:45:10 PM  

Whoa, ADA products. $$$

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E-mail: nygburks@yahoo.com
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tames


Posts : 76
Location : Maumee
Posted : 5/17/2008 11:53:53 AM  

This is just my opinion on extremely limited knowledge about saltwater setups.  If you decide to read the rest of this, take a deep breath...., you may breath again midway..

This part of the hobby is really quite new.  It was really only possible with the technological advance in equipment and knowledge.  If there is a demand, there will be a way to supply.   The presentation last month about ocean aquaculture farms gives great hope to the hobby. It is only natural that larger companies will see the benefits of farming (or will be forced to) which will increase supply.  I would imagine that the variety of fish/inverts may decrease for a while until the farms get more mature.  It was incredible though how fast the farm "grew" as far as animal life over a period of a few years.

I think saltwater will eventually go the way of freshwater.  Consider the freshwater farms in Florida that raise huge quantities of FW fish and plants. I am guessing you would be hard-pressed to find these farms 50 years ago.  Consider the amount of Coral frag swaps that I have observed of late.  Did this happen much even 10 years ago?


He made a point about the "natural" look of the FW tank vs what he referred as an unnatural look to the reef tank.  Really, that FW look does not exist in nature.  Many of the plants he used are really emergent plants that live much of their life above the water line. Most aquarium plants are really emergent plants.  I would also guess that the combination of plants used were not from the same geographical areas. The addition of CO2 causes greatly increased growth - which is not natural either.  You get better growth with CO2 injection because most of these plants are emergent and naturally get their CO2 from the air (abundant) - not the water (not abundant). Injecting a lot of CO2 into the water causes it's own problems (because it is not natural). Frequent water changes (RO water is best), adding lots of fertilizers, pH swings,  etc.

The author of the article is struggling with his own moral beliefs. As he learns more about ocean environmental concerns he is making a switch in his own mind about whether it is good to keep taking life from the ocean - from the precious few natural reefs that remain.  He obviously got you think about this issue even though to you he delivered it in a negative way.  I think the choice of words and the "bashing" was not needed.  He needs this type of thinking to give credibility to the switch. The beauty of the tank speaks for itself and he should have presented it just as an alternative.

 

"The demand for clarity is responsible for the confusion." -- U.G. Krishnamurti

Maumee Valley Living Reality Meetup Group
Briney Dave

Moderator
Posts : 981
Location : N/A
Posted : 5/17/2008 2:50:28 PM  

Those are great points.  I know some reef set-ups can look very much like a bunch of other's to some folks and maybe that has happened to the author.  I hope that never happens to me.  So far I have managed to learn something, see something new, or simply be inspired by every model aquarium fresh or salt that I have ever seen. 

I would like to see more freshwater tanks as features, but hope that the same sort of snobbiness that this guy has and some reef keepers too have does not come with this movement

Burks

Moderator

Posts : 1895
Location : Toledo, OH
Posted : 5/18/2008 3:02:55 PM  

The great thing with plants is that they are easily propagated, far beyond what 99% of coral can be, and shipped in horrible weather. I shipped a gallon bag of random plants to Cali one time and it was stuck in the mail for over a week. This was with no heat/cold pack or insulation, just a bag in a box. Darn things lived! I don't know of very many companies that actually import plants. I can think of maybe......4 or 5 off the top of my head. The number for freshwater and marine fish/inverts is off the charts.

A good example of how quickly we can put a species on the brink of disaster is the Galaxy Rasboras and the new Sulawesi Shrimp. These populations were not all that large to begin with and only found in one, maybe two areas. I know the Sulawesi Shrimp are being imported not by the hundreds, but by the tens of thousands per species (something like 10-15 now). This is only in one lake in the world! Thankfully there are those out there that brought these shrimp in to save the species by breeding them, which one person has been doing a fantastic job at.

I hope the marine trade goes the way the freshwater has, it really needs to happen. You can't just take a large Donut Brain coral, hack it in half, and then do the same again a week later like freshwater plants (not all but a lot).

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coupedefleur


Posts : 534
Location : the Great Black Swamp
Posted : 5/19/2008 10:16:30 AM  

Interesting choice of fish- the australe is the only one that's really directly colorful.

A heavily planted FW tank probably looks more "restful" to many people- green plants being very easy on the eyes.

vance71975

Posts : 938
Location : Bryan,Ohio
Posted : 5/20/2008 12:27:27 AM  

i love both, i have a planted Loach tank now and will someday have a reef!

THE MEDIOCRE MIND IS INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING THE MAN WHO REFUSES TO BOW BLINDLY TO CONVENTIONAL PREJUDICES AND CHOOSES INSTEAD TO EXPRESS HIS OPINIONS COURAGEOUSLY AND HONESTLY-Unkown
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